Time to Revise Roadie Rides

[Lee S.]

Same roads,
Same rules,
Same rights!

P.S.  I miss you "purple"!

[Sanford Aniya]

Jeff,
From my perspective being relatively new to cycling and also to NCCC, I hope that you can find a way to retain the diversity found on the Saturday regular rides.  It was with great apprehension that I showed up the first Saturday. I did not know anyone, or what to expect on the ride and if I was going to be dropped.    Once we got going, I was relieved that there both faster and slower riders and there were several friendly riders that were running at a pace that I could maintain.  I had a great time, and after a few more good rides ended up joining the club.   
I like the fact that as I improve I am able to ride with faster riders, or on other days I can ride with slower riders.  I hope you retain the diversity on the Saturday rides.
If we do not want to assign people to keep track of every rider, then the sentence ?If someone really is too slow we make sure they know where they are and how to get back to the start.? should be toned down or removed.  I think that saying, ?you may be dropped?,  would scare off all but strong riders.
While the club may not want to accept any liability for dropped riders, I would say that one of the inferred values of a club is that it will take care of it?s own.
Some actions for consideration:
1)   Ask that no one be allowed to ride alone. If you have been riding with someone, and they are dropping behind, to the extent of running solo with no one else  in sight, please wait for them. 
2)   Have each person Identify a buddy at the beginning of a ride to keep track of missing riders at regroops.  I  Also let people know if you do not plan to complete the designated route.
3)   Perhaps there could be three speed/level groups, and each one responsible for waiting for their own at regroups.  Someone else mentioned A,B,C groupings.   At the beginning of each ride everyone can ?self? designate themselves to one group.  After the first ride, you will figure out where you fit in.  Some of the elders in the group can coach new comers.  I think that designating a group leader is not necessary. 

By the way: Thanks for preparing the route slips and holding the safety talks before each ride.

[Noel Llopis]

The Roadies have two groups, Regular & Long. Regular rides are 35-45 miles and average 14-17 mph for the whole ride. Long rides are 45-90 miles and average 17-19 mph. We are a recreational club and do not have a racing team. Route slips are provided for weekend Regular rides. Routes and regroupings are suggested, but optional. There is no formal sag support, and slower riders may be dropped. Please feel free to drop in uninvited, and introduce yourself when you come out on a ride.

I agree with Jeff. That's a much more accurate description of the reality of the NCCC groups (for example, making it clear that the only group that has ride slips anymore is the regular). I'd say we should make that change in the description on the web site.

[Letitia]

I'm going to put my $0.02 worth in.

I"m a slow rider, my average is usually in the 14 mph range, so if you are thinking of joining you should be able to ride a minimum of 14 mph for close to 40 miles.  I'm in the group that usual ends up watching out for the new riders who can't keep up.  Actual I'm slightly faster than some of the slow riders so I don't always watch out for the stragglers, Dee and Carol do that, which is good because they are much nicer and friendlier than me.  I think its great that people feel we should have a no drop policy, but the sad fact is, the people suggesting this are not the ones who will end up watching the stragglers.  There have been several rides when someone is our group is really struggling and we end up way out of sight of the main group.  The only people who have ever come back to check on us are Lou and Greg (who are friends) and Jeff (who feels responsible).  I know some folks say "we didn't know if you were slow or taking a short cut", but the fact is we ALWAYS tell someone when we are going to cut the ride short.

The point I'm trying to make is, while several people think we should have a no-drop policy, it will end up being 4 or 5 of us who have to implement that policy, the rest of the group will keep doing what they are currently doing with no thoughts given to stragglers.

I apologize if I sound a little abrupt and curt, and I know Dee and Carol would jump up and say they don't mind watching out for new people, but its the principle that bothers me.  Everyone is for a no drop policy as long as it doesn't effect their ride.

Letitia

[Joe Strafaci]

Perhaps more description may help the first timer to fully understand what to expect;  here's a suggestion:

"The Roadies have two groups; Regular & Long. Regular rides are 35-45 miles and include riders of various abilities averaging between 14-18 mph for the entire ride. Long rides are 45-90 miles and average 17-19 mph. We are a recreational club and do not have a racing team. Route slips are provided for weekend Regular rides and regroupings within both groups is the norm but not mandatory. There is no formal sag support and slower riders are encouraged to hold the last wheel or be dropped. Please feel free to drop in uninvited, and introduce yourself when you come out on a ride."

I've been riding with the regular group since March and very much appreciate Jeff's attitude and leadership.

Joe

[Judy Frankel]

Joe:

The way you have worded it is fine with me but,  I really don't think that all Long riders are in the 17-19 mile per hour group either.  Just a point to keep in mind when revising the policy.

I have ridden with them and there is no way I average 17mph.. especially when there is a lot of climbing.. or when going very long. (and climbing)

THere are really 2 groups in the Long Riders as well.  And, there is no reason why others would not want to go long... even if not as fast...  You don't push the hard pace on a 90 mile ride.  Sometimes I think the regular riders are faster than the long riders.  It depends on who shows up. (and if you are in the front or the back )

I think perhaps if you want to join any group there should be a way of finding out the route in advance so that if you get dropped you can find you way onward or back.. or perhaps catch up at a stop or if there are flats.
Also, you can bring a buddy with you that rides at your pace.   

Even if there are no route slips, someone can orally tell you the route or post it on the website.  It doesn't work well if you are not that familiar with the area or the routes.  If the long riders want to post 17-19mph as their speed then I guess you need to expect to get dropped and find your own way back.  There are always days when someone might not be feeling great and have to get home on their own more slowly anyway so you should always be able to be self sufficient.  I don't like to make people wait for me and I don't particularly like to wait long on others either.  If there is too much discrepency in the group then there should be 2 groups.

I have gotten faster by trying to stay with the group..I don't mind riding on my own if I get dropped and have ended up in front of them at times by using the rabbit and the hare strategy.. I just keep going.

I think everyone should be welcome to come to the rides but, if they can't keep the pace they should be prepared to find their way home.   Other clubs sometimes have separate rides for newbies..  Maybe once a month someone might volunteer to do a newbie ride.. this might help them to learn bike handling skills in a group as well to make the ride safer for everyone.

Jeff does a great job of planning the rides!  Thanks Jeff!

Judy

[Lisa Ruby]

I have to agree 100% with Letitia's post. I'm just slightly faster than she is, so I'm also usually at the back of the rides and it's exactly as she describes it. The truth is we're not going to be able to make everyone happy. We're going to have to try to find a way to do the best we can, knowing that we won't be able to accommodate everyone. There isn't a single bike club out there that can accommodate every level of rider. I think we do way better than most and are a friendly group, but there is a limit, even for us.

I've been a member of the club for 19 years and I've seen it change in various ways over the years and I've had to make my own decisions at various times about whether to continue to go on club rides. I keep coming because I enjoy the people and most of the rides, and some of my best friends have come from the club. During rides (even before now) I've often ended up either at the back by myself or somewhere in the middle of the group by myself. And as Letitia says, either nobody is watching out for those of us that end up in that position, or there are a few people that will check on us if they are on the ride and not too far ahead. Dee and Carol will help out slower newcomers, but they both have other interests and things going on in their lives and often aren't at the Saturday rides. For the last several months when there have been rides scheduled rides that go into areas where I don't like being by myself I call around to see if anyone will be at the ride that I think I will be able to ride with, or I find a way to shorten the ride and stay out of areas where I don't want to be alone,  or I stay home and ride by myself in areas where I am comfortable.

I think Jeff is right on to say that slower riders may get dropped. We might be able to find a softer way to word it, but it's the truth. It's just as hard on people like Letitia and I to have to wait for riders who are 2 mph slower than we are, as it is for the fastest riders to have to wait for us. People shouldn't have to spend 45 minutes of a ride waiting. I've done that. It's too hard to cool off and warm up five or six or seven times during a ride. We know what the speeds are of the slower riders and I think we need to advertise that people who want to ride with us should be able to ride at least that pace. We can redirect other riders to clubs that might be a better fit for them. That's why there are different types of clubs. The other issue is, there aren't many of us slower riders and it's hard to say if any of us will be on a ride on any given Saturday to look out for those newcomers who might show up and be able to ride our speed. Are those of you who think we should try to accommodate everyone willing to pick up the slack when we aren't there? Are you willing to lead the beginner rides you are suggesting? Are you willing to spend a total of 45 minutes to an hour waiting for people who come out and can only ride 12 to 14 mph? I might be wrong, but my guess is the answer is no. Which means we need to be honest in our advertising and try to help those who can't keep up with us find other options.

I think if we can find people who are willing to lead beginner rides, we should have one a month, rather than one every week. We might actually be able to sustain it that way. I also like the idea of trying to informally split into groups of different speeds at the beginning of the rides, so that hopefully everyone will have at least one other person to ride with. I think it's clear that we aren't going to find enough volunteers to regularly have formal A, B and C groups.

Finally, I want to say a public thank you to Jeff for the many years of effort he has put into being our ride leader. We don't have a lot of people who are willing to do what he has done. He is there almost every week, week after week, month after month, year after year, often even when he isn't able to ride. He has created all kinds of new and interesting (and hard :-) routes, and he's helped us out a lot by posting all of the route slips on his web site.

Lisa

[Frank]

Getting dropped is a good excuse to stop and have a leisurely lunch.

Fajitas burrito last Saturday.

[Lisa Ruby]

Now there's a positive attitude!

I read Judy's last post before I wrote mine. I like a lot of what she has to say about providing enough information and assistance so people can be self-sufficient if they can't quite keep up, but would like to come out and ride with us and try to get stronger. That's pretty much how I've approached it. When I first started with the club I carried maps so I could find my way back if I got dropped and got lost. I don't expect people who are a lot faster than I am to wait for me. I sure do appreciate it when they do, but I don't expect it.

Lisa