I would like to propose a change in orientation for our Saturday rides at the September NCCC board meeting. (All club members are welcome). The riders are getting so strong and fast that the rides are very spread out. Slow riders complain that fast riders do not wait for them. Fast riders complain that regroups are excessively long. 

I often hear that we need to have someone as ride sweep, but volunteering to ride sweep is too burdensome because a sweep ends up babysitting beginners who cannot handle our speed and distance. Additionally, few riders actually complete most rides: they take a different route, or drop out to head home, or get lost. We should not pretend that we will keep track of slower riders.

We need some alternatives to handle the variation in rider abilities. Perhaps we need more groups (same routes / different groups?).  Or different ways of starting (fast riders first or last?). Or different ways of leading (call the leader?s cell phone if you need help). Or different routing (bonus miles routes for faster riders). Or different regrouping (fast/medium/easy). Or encourage ride buddies.

Our current Roadie description on the club website says:

The Roadies have two groups, Regular & Long. Regular rides are 35-45 miles and Long rides are 45-60 (sometimes longer) miles long. There are strong riders in each group but Long riders are faster and a bit more competitive. The Regular riders regroup more often and for longer times. Average speeds for the whole ride for Regular rides is 14-16 and 16-18 for the Long rides. We are not a "racing" oriented club. If someone really is too slow we make sure they know where they are and how to get back to the start. Route slips are provided for weekend rides. Please introduce yourself when you come out on a ride.

My proposal would say:

The Roadies have two groups, Regular & Long. Regular rides are 35-45 miles and average 14-17 mph for the whole ride. Long rides are 45-90 miles and average 17-19 mph. We are a recreational club and do not have a racing team. Route slips are provided for weekend Regular rides. Routes and regroupings are suggested, but optional. There is no formal sag support, and slower riders may be dropped. Please feel free to drop in uninvited, and introduce yourself when you come out on a ride.

I would also remove wording that suggests sag support: ?This is the perfect opportunity for those who want to ride longer and stronger without having to worry about being left behind.?

Hi Jeff,

Thank you for bringing this up. I'm on the slower end of the Roadies Regular group and agree that it would be helpful for many in the group if we tried to address the issues that you mentioned. I think there are various ideas floating around on ways to do it. For the newsletter changes, it might also be nice to add a member's phone number for newbies who want help figuring out if the Roadies are right for them. (I am willing to volunteer to do this.) That would allow us to provide a way to keep from scaring off people who could do just fine with us, and redirect those that can't.

Lisa

Hi Jeff:

I am not sure that the long ride average is as high as 17-19 miles an hour.. especially when they are doing 75- 90 miles of hills.  Maybe even up Palomar.

If that is the average, then there are also those who want to ride Long .. > 50 miles that don't average that speed.

So maybe there needs to be more than one long rider group as well.

my .02

Judy

Jeff / Lisa,

I'm also new to road biking and found this site, but I feel intimated and haven't come out yet because I'm currently only riding 20-25 miles on Saturday's.   I'm working on building up my speed and distance just to stay up with the group before coming out.  I would have to agree with Lisa, if you want new riders to come out they need a starting point with a progression path to allow / encourage new riders to build up to the longer riders.  Hopefully I'll attempt to join you within the month after I do the next ride with the Trek store (28 Miles). 

On a personal note I find you site promoting recreation and excersize better the other riding groups that promote racing.  I have 5 boys and I just want to stay in shape to keep up with them.  Last year I built up my running to do the Rock and Roll Marathon but it killed my knees so I've taken up biking as an alternative and my new goal is be able to ride a century.

Grumpy.

  Time to get up on the soapbox and do a little preachin'.  This is aimed at Grumpy and all others who may feel a bit intimidated. The worst thing a new rider can do is think that they must keep up with the lead group. There are always sub-groups that form  shortly after the start. They are mostly split up by speed and occasionally by the desire to modify a route to go around a nasty hill or stay out of a hot canyon, etc.  When I am in one of these groups, I have no expectations on the lead group to wait at a designated stop. We have rolled into stops in the past to find the lead group had departed. The sub groups usually wind up back together at the stops.  The point is not to fear riding because you think eveyone in the group is a jack rabbit with a coyote on it's tail. I don't get out with the club that often but when I do, I enjoy a more liesurley pace and conversation instead. Don't be intimidated by hiills-they are only varying degrees of attitude and when you take them on at your own pace instead of running your gas tank dry trying to keep up with a faster rider, you will get over the top and have plenty left to keep going. I will be out for the Labor Day ride and will make sure no one gets dropped or intimidated. The club is very diverse and it is a rare instance when you can't find someone to ride with. Come ride with us. Do it for the enjoyment of the ride, not to keep up with Jones. (Do we have anybody named Jones??) -John H

Thank you, John. I think we want to promote the attitude you have. I personally think the way the website is worded is just about right and to say "riders may be dropped" is pretty intimidating. Listening to some who ride both groups, the long group may actually regroup more often but for shorter time intervals. They recognize there is a dynamic range in pace and so come together a bit more often. If you really want to have multiple groups they should be well organized - most clubs have A, B, C, ... groups and well-defined leaders and routes for each. I believe that was the genesis of "Regular" and "Long" in the first place - prior to that just one big group. The current issue is actually a good sign as we have more people riding, but it does create more of the kinds of problems Jeff brings up and I do agree it's a good time to discuss. We just need to be a bit careful with how to proceed. I know Diana tried to promote 2 groups within the long group this month and it fell apart as the faster group just got too far ahead and it was expected everyone would regroup at a couple points. We recently had a few people move on to other clubs to ride at an even faster pace. The latter is what I want to avoid, as the reason I ride in a group is I enjoy all the people I have met in NC3 over the past 5 years; I can always beat myself up on my own if all I want is a workout. So I have no answers here, but it seems like an issue worth working through and I'm glad Jeff opened it up for discussion. A big attendance at the Board meeting, pre-empted by further discussion on this Board, might provide a better riding environment for all.

And there is a Jones - Steve is another reason I come out for NCCC rides 

Keep it simple.
I agree with several of the thoughts posted here.
Just have another "newbie" regular ride group, led by several seasoned riders who are willing to work with newer riders. There are several excellent club riders who come to mind here!

Maybe call them the "Short Group", to keep in line with the "Regular" and "Long" theme.
Ride a cut-off regular route, or design a new one. Maybe hit the Regular regroup point  too!

Newer riders are often a little uncertain about joining a club, due to lack of experience and skills. Make it interesting and fun and they'll be back.

I make a good example; as lame as I am, I came back!!!

keep handing out those cards,
kellyjay

  Great idea!! The seasoned riders can show the "newbies" how to run through red stop lights, stop signs, and put the safety of others in danger. Much to the disdain of several motorists whose jaws were on their floorboards, that was quite a display that some of you put on this morning. The left turn onto Mesa was a real eye-popper. And you wonder why motorists have such ill thoughts towards cyclists. Not only did I get to witness your total disregard for the law and common sense, I got a very undeserved share of left-over dirty looks from motorists as I sat waiting for the GREEN LIGHT! Enough is enough. I have turned my last crank with NCCC. My apologies to anyone who may have wanted a liitle help on Monday's ride.

What JohnH just wrote is very concerning.  I was thinking of coming out for the first time Monday, but if this is what the NCCC is all about I'm going to think twice.  I would have to agree with JohnH that laws are there for a reason and what's being taught that if one leads and breaks the law the rest of the group follows.

Where is NCCC going, it appears that you just lost another rider...

I guess I'll ride by myself for a while longer.

Thanks JohnH for this very important information before I made a mistake.

Here is a reminder to those that JohnH noted by your own rules they state:

When riding with NCCC, obey traffic laws.

Check it out:  http://northcountycycleclub.com/~northco1/pdf/NCCCRoadRidingRules.pdf

I hope what happened is rare and not normal.  I notice that many view this thread but few will comment.  If you want new riders to join we newbie's would like to hear for others in this group what they think on this topic.  I would encourage others to comment.

Grumps,

I think John is having a really bad day.

As with any large group of people, there are those that follow the letter of the law and those that sometimes do and those that never do, (which is why we have prisons).

I"ve been riding on and off with NCCC since 02.  I've witnessed my share of violators and on occasion have been one also.

No where in our by-laws does it state that this is our policy.  We are all responsible for behaving while riding but it's ultimately up to the individual.

If you choose to not ride with NCCC because of this one statement, then it's most definately a loss for you, as we have some awesome people that are a blast to ride with.  Talk to a bunch of members that ride every weekend to get a feel for the attitude of the club.  Don't let one rouge individual make a decision for you.

Bob

Grumps,

I think some people don't respond because cycling shoud be fun and un-complicated.  Sometimes we get to wired about a subject that in the long run just doesn't matter.

Please just ride and have fun.

Bob

Kellyjay,
I think that is a good idea.

Quote from: kellyjay on August 30, 2008, 05:38:25 AM
Just have another "newbie" regular ride group, led by several seasoned riders who are willing to work with newer riders. There are several excellent club riders who come to mind here!

Maybe call them the "Short Group", to keep in line with the "Regular" and "Long" theme.
Ride a cut-off regular route, or design a new one. Maybe hit the Regular regroup point  too!

Quote from: Bob Burgess on August 30, 2008, 08:55:11 PM
Grumps,

I think John is having a really bad day.

As with any large group of people, there are those that follow the letter of the law and those that sometimes do and those that never do, (which is why we have prisons).

I"ve been riding on and off with NCCC since 02.  I've witnessed my share of violators and on occasion have been one also.

No where in our by-laws does it state that this is our policy.  We are all responsible for behaving while riding but it's ultimately up to the individual.

If you choose to not ride with NCCC because of this one statement, then it's most definately a loss for you, as we have some awesome people that are a blast to ride with.  Talk to a bunch of members that ride every weekend to get a feel for the attitude of the club.  Don't let one rouge individual make a decision for you.

Bob

Bob,
This is why I'm trying to get feedback from other's, I know your always going to have someone that's not happy regardless how good it is.  Because of your statements, I may re-evaluate my decision.

Thanks for offering your personal comments.

Grumpy.

Grumpy - The best way to get feedback is to ride the rides and talk to the members. The Message Board is more for information as it is required, and, as administrator of the Board, I can inform you that it is a very small cross-section of the club who post regularly. As Bob mentioned, we don't sit on-line all day looking for things to pop up on the Message Board - we just ride. For those who read the Message Board, the discussion may certainly give ideas for improvement, but like Bob, I show up for rides every Sat and Sun, and always have a great time, not to mention having met a set of people with similar interests I would never have met otherwise.
- Karl